Imperfect Allies

Episode 019 - Traditions

January 13, 2021 Chris Beasley and Richie Lunsford Season 1 Episode 19
Imperfect Allies
Episode 019 - Traditions
Show Notes Transcript

This week Chris and Rich talk about Traditions! If you want to join the conversation, and be a part of supporting us, please consider being a patron. Just a few dollars a month makes a huge difference. https://www.patreon.com/imperfectallies



0:01

All right, imperfect allies. I'm Chris. I'm Richie. And today we are rocking with you again with another episode, we want to really deep dive and talk about how we can build bridges. But how some of the things we traditionally love to do are actually causing some schisms. And I think Richie, we both have basically been celebrating for the last month and a half, because that's the time right? We just finished with Christmas, we just finished with New Year's, we're getting into January we're settling in. And all that time is about traditions. And I'm quickly finding out these traditions are what we pass on. It's kind of what we carry from our past. And they're really hard to break with. And yeah.


0:49

I'm curious about the traditions you have with just your family not even discussing necessarily race and culture. But it's this season was unique because quarantining, right 2020 it changed the way we did things. And for me and my wife, this was our first real holiday on our own, which we are establishing our own family because we moved in the year 2020, during the pandemic. And so we're away from family, and we're trying to create new trend traditions. But what was really ironic is, I quickly found out my wife has traditional things that she loves to do that I cannot stand. Alright. Welcome to marriage, my man, welcome to marriage.


1:39

compromise.


1:42

Well, they say it's about compromise, which I realized that I compromised all of my traditions.


1:51

Know it? Don't worry, it'll it'll come around. Don't worry, don't worry, well, no, the irony is my traditions are very not enjoyable and fun. I like sitting and eating and not interacting, not doing the festive stuff, I don't have the connections to the Christmas joy, to the same levels that my wife did. And this year, we were trying to do the best we could with the times. And so we were going from house to house, looking at Christmas lights, you know, baking cookies making gingerbread house and these things are, these things are traditional. And for me, they were new.


2:34

They weren't these new discoveries, that just, I found myself getting tired, because there was learning the whole time. And I'm so busy and fine. And we were with a few friends. And so just learning a new tradition is tough, you know, sometimes, I'm sure, a lot of growth for me during a time where I would prefer to do what I always did. And so that was just, it just got me thinking, Oh, how these traditions instill something that we don't want to change. But yet, we can still learn a new fun tradition and start finding the joy that others have in those traditions. Oh, for sure, man. And I think I think it's the best definition of tradition that I've ever heard is its democracy for the dead. Right? It's those that have come before us, their voice is still present in our lives. Because this is the way that we did it. And that is not


3:31

that comes with the same like good and bad that kind of all things come with, right? Yeah. So like, my favorite story about traditions is the it's the it's the ham story. Or there's a woman that makes ham and she's she's she's making ham Christmas ham with her daughter. And she puts the ham on the counter. She cuts off the top and the bottom and puts it in a pan and puts it the oven and throws the two slices away. And the daughter is like, Well why did you do that? And she goes, and the mom says I don't I don't know. I just had my mom did it. We can ask grandma. So when they get to grandma's house for Christmas, they got the ham out. She's like, you know, Grandma, why did you cut off the size of the ham every Christmas? And she said well because so the ham could fit in my pan.


4:24

So so some of those so so while it's it's those traditions can be great and wonderful. And that is something that that family will probably cut the size of their ham every year for going right. And it's a fun story and it brings joy in it and things like that at the same time. I don't want to forget that like those things.


4:46

We can get stuck in traditions. You know, I'm saying like there are things that when we're not introspective about where they come from or where we come from if we if we listen to only sort of one voice, you know of that past and


5:00

I know that the history, the historical context and things like that, I think we get into trouble. And that's so so I feel like I'm the Scrooge of this


5:11

tradition thing, because you're bringing this joy, but good vibes and energy I I'm with you on that, too, there's lots of good things that we continue to do, like, one of the traditions that I just love that I feel like is, is a, a worldwide thing during the Christmas time is everybody tends to be a little gentler, a little more compassionate, a little bit more giving. And it's this, it's this really, cuz it's this really cool thing that sort of juxtaposes


5:45

the sort of historically how things are because historically, winter is like, we're, we're dug in, we're not going to give anything away, we're going to keep it all be kept, because we had to, because because we're we were in survival mode for a long, long time. And now as, as we A lot of us, even though we're broke, a lot of us maybe not even have a job, we're thriving comparatively. To our historical grandmothers and grandfathers are, you know, and so that, that has become a time of giving enjoy, I think is a really great,


6:21

great thing. But But I don't want to also, I also don't want to forget that history, because I think we forget that history, it causes problems. Well, and the history gives us perspective. I mean, yeah, you put it that way of looking at how joyful we are, comparatively. So two times where winter meant less resources, and we had to fend for ourselves. Right, that is a huge way to look at the joy and really enjoy it. Just get that perspective. And I think there was a movie that came out during the holiday season that just passed was Sol and I knew a lot of people were watching Sol on Disney plus. And it was all about gaining that perspective of being happy with what you have, and and really taking those things in. And that makes me think about Christmas, and Hanukkah and this time of giving. And when I used to experience it, it was a given. I mean, I grew up privileged in a way that Christmas was just a time of the year. And during that time of the year. Yeah, you get presents, and I've never seen a tree without presence under it. So I know. It's just it's just a thing, right? I can't look at it with the perspective of why this could be such a Joyce beautiful thing. And, you know, experiencing this time with my wife and starting our new traditions, I quickly noticed some things about the traditions that maybe there was a reason why I wasn't completely bought in before. And yeah, that that I find very interesting. And one thing about being on this podcast, and we're talking about race, we talk about culture. And I've been adamant over the last few episodes that no individualism is going to help me grow. And I'm going to step out of this need to listen to racing, and hear race and see race and I'm going to stand above that.


8:18

But during this holiday season, I am I had internal racism. That stopped me from enjoying a tradition that my wife had. And it was very surreal, because I was already very aware that I'm not trying to be stopped by racism. I'm not going to make it a thing. You know, I'm talking about it on this podcast, because this is something that I think helps people and hopefully we can grow. But I don't want to talk about race, like I used to where it was surrounding and trapping me. Yeah, but me and my wife went Christmas light watching or It's a tradition, right? I can't even talk I don't even know what it's called. What are you looking at Christmas lights that might that might be more busy. But how people say I don't I literally don't know people are like, how do you not do this? I it's just not a thing that my family did.


9:13

Traditionally, and you drive and you see lights, but you don't go on purpose.


9:20

And you definitely don't get out the car to Gander and stare at somebody else's house. And that's next level because I don't get out of the car. I'll drive around, but I'll get


9:30

the car. That's good. Thank you, Richie. You made me feel a lot better. My wife was like, No, we gotta get out. We got to take photos. And that's not how my wife sounds. And I know I'm gonna have a comment from my wife. My wife is beautiful. I love her. She's amazing. Y'all know who that was.


9:48

But it was, it was really hard for me to get out the car and look at these houses.


9:55

And while we did it, I could not get my head.


10:01

up and facing the house, I was staring down at the ground for majority of that experience. And me and my wife got into, you know, an argument about, you know, what are your intentions? Why are you trying to look at these houses, this doesn't make sense, this is weird. And it hit me.


10:22

I don't want to be a black man standing outside of someone's house, looking to be canvassing the joy. Wow. And it was so emotional for me because I sure realized, holy crap, racism has a hold on me, and is controlling how I experienced Christmas and these traditions that my wife has. And it was it was unbearable, because I knew I didn't want to look in those houses, I knew I didn't want to look at him. I didn't, I didn't want to be seen looking at him. And it was the irony was, every house in California at this time had a black lives matter this and a black lives matter. And my wife was like, Look, no, you are supported here. And my eyes would go, but look at that sign that says suspicious activity will be reported.


11:13

You know, I'm still noticing all of these other things that are what I've always been taught to find and what I've always been taught to see. And so it was, it was unbearable, there was nothing I could do to take in this, this tradition that my wife had, and towards the end about 30 minutes in, I was like, You know what, Chris? challenge yourself, stare at this house, and make them call the police. Like, that's, that's true love. I'm gonna have to try and learn how to enjoy this. And, and I looked at one house for, you know, 20 seconds, it felt like forever.


11:50

But, but it was just very eye opening about how racism internally can change how you experience everything, and how traditions are really built up based on how all this history and past has taught that tradition to you. Yeah, I mean, that's, you know, that's really sobering man. And I'm, I'm glad that you shared that because I think that I hope our, our, our white listeners hear that, you know, I'm saying like, I know that I know what you're saying and that like, not trying to let racism rule your life. And in, like, try to be you know, get a boat, you know, I want to I want to jump in with my wife's traditions, I want to be a part of what she brings to the table, I want to I want to


12:36

you know, I want to participate in that. At the same time yells experiences so different in that area, that it like that intersection is really sobering man. And, and, I mean, I commend you for sort of pushing forward for, you know, through it and stuff at the same time like that, that that it is even there. Yeah, that, you know, oh, wait a minute, I'm in an affluent neighborhood. I'm a, I'm a black man in an affluent neighborhood getting out of my car. This is not, okay, this is not safe. Right. And, I mean,


13:14

man, and the thing about, you know, the imperfect allies that are very adamant to say, don't make yourself a victim, you're, you're playing the victim, you're doing all these things to be the victim. It's like, no, I, I'm doing everything I can to be above that, and not be impacted by that. But still, I have 30 years of education, from my own experience, not to mention hundreds of years of education from my forefathers and my grandmother teachings. And so it's, it's very hard to simplify these things. To say that choices are enough in the moment. Because, man, Richie, I was trying so hard, but I was broken. I mean, I started crying on the middle of the street during a Christmas tradition. And and that was not because I was playing the victim it was because I was struggling with a reality that my wife wasn't even experiencing. She was standing right next to me fine. Yeah, because that's never been a threat to her. That's never been I mean, that's just not and I'm not trying to put her down or anything. That's not a threat to me either. I would say like, what why not like, just walk around. Now, man, but you know, and not to? I mean, you know, make light of it. But that guy's got nautical shorts on and I'm not I'm not. Yeah, I'm not messing with them. Exactly. I just don't you know, like, because it's not it doesn't turn out. Well, like we see like in the news and stuff with people like those folks, when you know, walking by their affluent house, pulling out guns and stuff like that's not an isolated incident. That's not a one time thing and


15:00

godly man, and I have no control over if the Black Lives Matter sign or the suspicious activity sign is more compelling to that person at that time I right, I can't do anything about what that person's genuine intentions are. Because in the moment, they might forget that they have a Black Lives Matter sign, and they might remember it, this is my house and someone staring in it.


15:23

And I'm not comfortable with that. And so it's


15:27

it's so nuanced. And, you know, I love that we're talking about traditions, especially at the time of the year that just passed. And


15:36

it's, it's just so tricky, and that we started this podcast to share perspectives and the share idea. And I love that we keep coming to these from different angles. Like no matter what we talk about ideas beforehand, and we share and bounce ideas off of each other. But because our experiences in our histories are so different,


15:59

you and I have a different look at the tradition every time and I want to adopt all the joy of Christmas that my wife has, I want to adopt that so bad. But I don't have the connections. Because black Santa Claus is a is black Santa, not Santa, you know, it's like, so many things that make the holiday, not mine. And Wow, man. And it's not that my parents even really forced that upon me. It's just the reality of the day and have the time. And it's just the truth. Yeah. Well, I mean, I appreciate you sharing that man. That's,


16:40

you know, on a podcast, it's hard to be it's hard to be at a loss for words on a podcast, man, because it's all targeted. But


16:48

I mean, I, I just want to sort of speak to our listeners right now, and hope that you hear that, like, we don't, you know, a lot of people will say, Well, you know, you know, they would, I'll let I'll be the, well, you know, that's not everybody's experienced Chris Oh, you know, he's got to suck it up or whatever. At the same time, millions of people across the country are saying the same kinds of things.


17:15

And, and, you know, and, and, you know, the the folks that are in the majority, we need to hear that, and we need to change that, you know, and, and it's a struggle, because, you know, Chris, you'd brought up like, the black lives matter in the same yard with, you know, whatever violators will be prosecuted. You know,


17:35

because I think, I think a lot of people, a lot of white people are in that same place, they want to be supportive, they want to be helpful, they want it they want to, they finally we, we finally hear and see and want to be allies. And we just, we still, you know, that both sides are still in our yard. You know, I'm saying and, and, and we don't know how to navigate, we know how to navigate without the Black Lives Matter poster, because we can just move on. We can just move on, like everything was we was always been,


18:08

you know, we we don't know how to move. We don't know how to move on with taking out that other side. Yeah, you know, that appealing to authority, that that, you know, that those kinds of things where the authorities that are in place are primarily, you know, it's not just my opinion, I mean, they're primarily there.


18:27

Because the history, the tradition of why they're there is, is really, really Rocky, and really damaging to a lot of black people specifically. And so


18:40

yeah, man, I mean, that's a that's a tough one. What, what is a? What is it affluent, white person to do with a black man standing there, you're looking at their, you know, I think it's, it's going out and saying, Hey, you, you like the lights? You know, saying like, stepping out and not being? I don't know, I mean, like, I don't know.


18:58

I've had, I've had black guys on my lawn that I was uncomfortable with. And I'm like, What do I do here? I just go out and say hello. Because? Because we're not.


19:08

It's not really different. Right? Like, do we have a lot of different perspectives? And we have, we have different history at this. But fundamentally, where were the you know, were the same, you know, I'm saying, Yeah, and I see that the alarm that I had in those moments would have easily been calmed by, you know, someone who was present there that live there, say, Oh, hey, man, I'm glad you enjoyed the lights. Yeah, you know, we just put this one up for this reason. And it just reminds us of our favorite Christmas song or Christmas jingle. And then you have like that through line. You're that connection. It's like, Oh, it's new loves music.


19:50

Maybe it's cold outside, that is my jam, like,


19:54

you know, something that's subtle that we actually do share, right? And yeah, those things are there.


20:00

And you were talking about how the time in the past, I don't I haven't been in this affluent neighborhood very long, maybe 2030 years ago, it wasn't as affluent and that sign that says suspicious activity is going to be reported. They put that sign up then, because at that time, that neighborhood was Rocky, and they've had their house for 50 years. And, and so they've come a long ways, and they haven't taken down that side. And, you know, like, we say that there are people in different times and different places at different moments. And it's the same thing with with culture and neighborhoods. And I understand that there's a time for that sign. But maybe, maybe this neighborhood has moved past that. I don't, I don't know, I don't live there.


20:47

But it was just very apparent to me that I was uncomfortable in a place where I was in. They were, they were probably intending for me to feel very, very comfortable. So that's Yeah, that's interesting, right? Yeah. Yeah. And that's, and that's, I think those things like we just have to, we have to just keep talking to each other. That's, that's really what it is, like, really, and, and accepting each other's experience as as their experience and not like some objective truth, right, like people, you know, I'm saying, like, the people that will that will deny or


21:23

what's it called? Gaslight, your experience? It's like, you know, we've got to, we got to listen and learn versus, versus I'm going to tell you how it is, you know, you know, I'm saying like, your experience is really this your, you know, black people have not been in trouble with the police for 2030 or 40 years, 50 years since since civil rights fix it all. Obama fixed it all, because we haven't president now. Well, that's, though, does, let's not be so dismissive, right? And here, here that when, like,


21:55

here and change, you know, change each other, for the better, you know, I'm saying like,


22:03

you know, because I think I think the, the voices that you hear you hear in individualism with like, Hey, man, you can do it, he doesn't matter what's in front of you, you've got the power to do it. That, that that voice is important. And in, in the black community. And it's there are people that have been saying that in the black community, and that are not just conservatives, but you know, I'm saying like, there's that there are messages there. But it does get lost in, you know, is another shooting, you know, there's another


22:34

somebody else got, you know, killed and so things like that. And, and I don't know, man, I mean, I think that's we just have to keep talking to each other. Keep talking about those signs, signs in our yard.


22:47

are real, they're real. And I,


22:51

I hear that we are you and I Richie, we are discussing these lines, we are discussing these blurred lines that no one of us see him clearly the other one, it's opaque. And we don't want it to be that way. And that only changes from us both talking about what we see, and then communicating back and forth. But some of the things that we paint, the images that we create, are from our past traditions that are the dead talking, and it's not us. And it isn't what I made. It's what I'm used to seeing, but it's not what I want to see. And I think there's a lot there that we need to discuss. And you've been talking about that just what are some of these traditions that we are predicating out of sheer, the traditional ritual, not the actual intended desire or outcome? Well, you know, I've been looking into it over the last little bit. And we as Americans have.


23:53

We don't have a ton of traditions. Like culturally as Americans, it's so broken down


24:00

that there are there we have a mishmash and things like that. But like some of the things that kept popping up were weddings. And so where do these things come from? What's the origin of the things of like, what's the origin of the best man? Well, a long time ago, the origin of the best man was was when a bride was given away.


24:22

That was the person in charge of making sure she didn't leave her place where like the place that either the home or the you know, where she was kept before the before the wedding night. Wow, kept guard to make sure she didn't run off. So make sure this actually happened. You know, says like, No, you celebrate being the best. I want to be the best man. I want to be your best man. It's a it's an honor to us now. But it wasn't always that way. And it comes from I think now from a 2021 perspective, a pretty crappy place, right? The same with a father walking the bride, you know, down the aisle right now. Like


25:00

It thinking about that with my kids like, Oh, what a wonderful, joyous time. Yeah, that was that.


25:08

You know, traditional when people talk about traditional marriage?


25:12

You know, we're talking about 1000 years ago, 2000 years ago on on back, those were transactions, and the father was handing over his property to another man. Hmm. So Trey, I'm saying, it was a trade, and there were definitely their goods exchange and all this stuff. So I don't know, man, I there's there's


25:34

I didn't


25:37

you know, I think my broader like,


25:41

inquiry is like, what are the things that you do in your life? Myself, you, Chris, and listeners, what do we do that we just do it? Because we just do it, you know, and don't challenge it?


25:56

If it's, if it's real, if it's the truth, it can handle the pressure. There's a guy that I like quite a bit. Who said that, and I think it's true. I think it's true. If it's true, we can handle the pressure. So where where do our political systems come from? Where do our authority systems come from? What was the history behind them? What are the you know, why do we have police right now? Where did that start? And how did it evolve to where it is now? You know, I was raised and, and


26:28

to believe that police were heroes, police were super men and women, the good guys, right? And but if you look back on where it started, it started not sheriffs and deputies, and things like that, where they're kind of controlling it helping control this or the area of the towns and things like that. The police that institutions started by going after runaway slaves. And it started,


26:55

you know, to to imprison


26:58

black slaves and poor whites that those are, you know, those traditions. And so I, I just I just want us to take a look at those things there the next week or so the next year, like, what are we doing? What what political views do I hold that are traditional, traditional family values? What does that mean? You know, where do those come from, you know, saying and that's, that's kind of where my head is at. No, I and I connect with that completely. Because as an educator, a lot of times we are working with raw materials, as in the students, and they are stuck in their ways, solely because that's the way that they have been, and they can't even connect with why the next step is fruitful for them. And you know, the irony of being a teacher is you have age you have you have wisdom, you have all these things that assure you that the direction you're pointing that kid in is the most beneficial for them. But they they attest to that completely. And so I look at us in these moments as the children. And we know the where now, where did the police come from? We know the why, why were they instilled the what now is the hardest part about that. Because letting go of our traditions, is fearful. It's scary. And when I'm working with my students, and I'm telling them, hey, this new practice this new habit we're trying to build, it's really good for you. But I know it's scary. We're gonna have to lean into that fear. And yeah, that's not easy to do without someone guiding you and without a mentor. And so you look at all these traditions, I think that's a great, great thing to do to basically work through all of the things that you do as a person, what are some of the things that are rituals for you, solely because you have done them before, but they're at your detriment. They are actually holding you back from something greater. They might be holding our country back from something greater. And yeah, I know that to be true about a lot of things, but it's scary to even stop looking question. It's, I mean, religious leaders, that was the number one way they will protect you is by not allowing you to stop look and question.


29:06

You're a heathen. You know?


29:09

Sorry, my cats are crazy.


29:12

Jim, what's his name? Jim. Yep, kung fu what is North Korea? I don't even have his name down. Kim Jong Hoon, Kim Jones, and he'll probably try and bomb me solely for not knowing who he is. But he the way he controls his population is don't let them know. Don't let them think the little question right. And so


29:33

in the land of the free the home of the brave, we got to be questioning stuff. We have to be looking at the tradition questioning and thinking, hey, what if we got rid of this let's just let's percolate on this let's think a little bit. Right and even and even those folks that are you know, that would be and myself included, they'll be afraid of getting rid of a particular thing. Not everything has to be removed. We just have we may have to change it though. Right? Like to


30:00

to evolve it to move it forward to make it better to improve it like that, you know, but to, to not question to not look back at history. You know, we're in a pandemic right now, that looks almost exactly like a pandemic. 100 years ago, it was the same thing. It was it was people deny that it was happening people, people didn't wear masks, people traveled, they didn't care. And it killed millions of people and work MIT work where we are turning the corner on half a million right now just in the country alone. Right. So there. So we've got to, you know,


30:42

we've got to be able to question and, and critique and criticize something that we love. Yeah, like, we've got to have this heart and it's not easy. If you put a tourniquet I'm learning about like a bunch of like, first aid stuff. If you put a tourniquet on someone, for instance, it's gonna hurt like, hell, it's gonna hurt. And if you listen to the patient, when you start to say, Oh, it's too tight, it's too tight, if you listen to that,


31:05

until,


31:07

and just stop when they say it's to your ankle. Yeah, it's not gonna work, it's not going to save that their life. But if you keep going, and then you do the test, where you test the fingers, or you check for the pulse, wherever, wherever the tourniquet is, and then you you know, you know, keep questioning and keep questioning, then you can have the possibility save the life. Same with packing and wound the same thing. If you listen to the patient, they're yelling and screaming and pain, this is too hard, it's too painful. I get it, it's painful, but we're saving your life. And I think that there's, there's a parallel that with this stuff, you know, is that,


31:39

you know, our whether it be our political system, our education system, our the systems that are in place, the policing, system, military, things like that, like we've got to think we have to, we have to change a lot of this stuff, because it's based off of


31:55

hundreds, if not 1000s, of years of tradition that.


31:59

That is we're giving it too much credence, we're giving it too much, too. too big a voice. Yeah, our voice matters, too. Right. And so, you know, like, just for instance, with the military, like, we spend so much money on weapon development, and very, very little money is actually spent on training and and care for the troops both during and after. Right. But when we, when we do when we did they do studies where they do put extra care that it's a huge difference. People are able to really like, you know, the number one suicides are military folks. And that's that's awful and deplorable and, and what they've seen is when they put money into aftercare and treat PTSD are things that happen, they get that they're able to reenter regular non combat society and have like, really great fulfilling lives.


32:54

But, but traditionally, we've not done that, we have done that you just you just be a man or you beat you know, you get up and you take it, and you just you move on. Well, that while it's a traditional attitude, it doesn't work. Yeah, we've seen we've got we've got data and experience that shows that doesn't work. And


33:13

anyway, I just that's that's just one one example of thinking, questioning, and where are we putting our money in our effort? The same with this, like a COVID checks? Like, you know, there's this fight in, in the senate right now whether to give us, you know, $2,000, if you make under 75, or 120 as a couple, or or not. And I've never seen republicans fight so hard to not give money back, like tax money back to the people. It's so weird. And so like, what are we what are we holding on to? At the same time, you know, on the other side of the aisle, people are rallying their fist. And you know, you're evil Republicans, when they've been in Congress, and they've been in the Senate for 30 years, and haven't done a goddamn thing, right to change any of this. So, so I, I, maybe I'm getting off topic, but there's like, there's a huge tradition of keeping your job at any means. Yes, they're


34:19

very Congress, right. And there's a huge tradition and policing about protect your own. And there's a lot of these traditions that we can't, we are so entrenched in them, we can't even gain the perspective of someone else. And you, me and my wife learn this because we're in California now. And California is a very liberal place with people of all walks of life. And so a few friends of ours are lesbians, and they were sharing their experience around marriage, which is something that we hold dear, because one I'm married, and my wife has been dreaming about being married for forever.


35:00

Right. And we we know these to be very common dreams for women. They're very common, right? Well, it was eye opening to see the perspective of this marriage in this marriage tradition from a female's perspective. Who has said, since they were young, they knew they weren't able to get married, there was nothing they could do to get married. So why would they celebrate the idea and the rituals of marriage, they didn't imagine themselves walking down the aisle. They didn't imagine themselves throwing a bouquet. They didn't imagine themselves having a ring. Because anytime they had that imagery in their head, they were instantly hit with the truth that that's illegal. You that is completely illegal. And so until they were grown adults, when it actually changed in 2015, five years ago, right, so unless you're five and gay,


35:57

there is no reason to have grown up with this memory that this was a possible thing for you. That changes that traditional perspective completely. And it was very humbling and sobering for us. Because we've been, we have been the people that have said, Oh my god, marriage is so powerful, it is so good. It is one of the best things that you can do as a couple and we really are excited for you to get to that place.

36:26

And for someone to say, well, that's, that's actually not a place that we're really looking to explore. Because it's not something we've ever been able to lean on as a truth. And who knows,


36:35

it might

36:36

be ripped away, and with a president signing something. And so right now, these are perspectives on traditions that we hold dear and love. But these perspectives allow us to really come down to the brass tacks of why are these traditions here? What is it that we want to communicate from our tradition, right? Me and my wife really want to say, having an everlasting partnership where both people are bought in to the end is really, really good for your psyche. It's really healing for you. And it allows you to plan for a future family. We're not talking about the actual walking down, or the actual dress you get to wear or the fact that your best man can stand outside of your your room and say, You ain't going anywhere. That's not Yeah, I'm not celebrating that. And the irony of that is I had to pick between my best man, I have a lot of longtime friends. And it was tough. It was tough. And now that I know the traditional criteria, I want to change who I picked.

37:44

Yeah, but also to like, and I think another thing that popped up while you're talking was, you know, if tradition is Democracy at the dead, we have to listen to more voices, because there is a lot of indigenous folks out there that had a place in a complete place in society for gay trans people that intersex things like that, that we that have been silenced by the majority of people that are straight. And so those voices are, I think those voices are crying out now. And we're hearing those there's, you know, starting to hear those as, as as a globe as one sort of species on the planet. And that's another thing too, I think we need to, you know, people say, well, it's traditional that we that gays aren't married. Well, how far back we look in how far in human history are we looking? last 2000 years? Okay, but what about the 250,000 years, man, but the last, you know, this is, you know, this idea of, of everybody's straight is an invention. It is a modern invention. And when I was susceptible to when I thought and believed wholeheartedly, I was I was in that camp, because I that's what everybody in my life was telling me. Ya know, and so, and so that's why I think it's so important to question and not just necessarily push back even just to know, Oh, that's good. You know, that's where we came from. You know, I'm saying like, that's, you know, like, the, the image that pops in my head all the time is how we eat bananas and how apes eat bananas. We eat bananas, we turn off the stem from the thing, we turn off the top. They don't if you ever see a monkey eat a banana know how to flip that bad boy around. And they they pinch the top of the bar, what we think is the bottom, and it's way easier to peel that banana 100 times easier to peel that banana. Right? But but we don't we don't. We're not including all those voices. We're not asking those questions. We're just we're just saying oh, you said Oh, okay. Well, you know, mom, dad, grandma said everything's okay. Okay, fine.


39:47

That's,

39:48

that's interesting. Because the the monkey is a derogatory term, from my perspective, because what we're saying to you, is that you are subhuman. You are unintelligent, and you're telling me humans have been the dumbest people to eat bananas? For sure. What they're saying is that the idea that monkeys are even less evolved in us, right? Is the invention.


40:17

And absolutely,


40:18

they know what the hell they're doing.

40:22

Really, man, crazy. Yeah, man. Yeah, that's so so. So folks. I mean, I hope you have a, you know, I hope this year I know has been ups and downs and ups and downs for me personally. I've seen tragedy, I've seen miracles, and you know, this, this 2021 we're not all the way through it. But this year is things are gonna get better. I really believe that and, and, and not just because of somebody in the White House, not i think i think things are moving in that direction. I think we're entering into a time not only in the country, but in humanity where things are moving toward justice, toward equity toward toward a more peaceful society across the globe. And, and and one where our differences, cultural differences are celebrated. And I may sound like people like no, no, China's going to Newcastle. I get that I get. I hear that perspective. I hear that perspective. But I think I think if we see if we look back on 2020 It's it's if you look up the definition of Apocalypse, it's absolutely an apocalypse. We had people like never before uniting together then saying, We've got to change. We've got to make things new, and we got to make things different. And that, that is that and more that we saw this last year brings me hope, you know, brings me hope and that tradition. I don't want to I don't want to let go of that tradition of hope. For this time this time of year.

41:54

Yeah, definitely. I love that. And, you know, I on this podcast, we will call them perfect allies for a reason is because our subconscious does some imperfect things a lot of times and, and you might be listening to our podcast, and your subconscious tells you that ain't right, that I don't hear that I don't connect with that there's something wrong there. Those those thoughts are okay, because they're your natural thoughts. But I want you to challenge those traditional thoughts that you have. And they're not traditions, maybe because it's what everyone's talking about. And there's a banner, it's it's traditional thought, because it's innate with you. It's an it's innate with the culture that you come from. And I know, personally, the culture I came from is a straight culture. And I'm from Texas. And so being out here, I, I've looked at this world I'm in in California differently, and with some skepticism as my traditions want me to, and absolutely, the craziest thing about it, I, I think about the stories of Sodom and Gomorrah, right? Like those things percolate in my mind. So quick, let you know we're moving into these directions where it sounds like we're heading to the Old Testament. That's what I'm noticing. And then I connect the perspective of the San talk book that we dug into, and one of our candidates, and I started thinking, Wait a second, do I fear Sodom and Gomorrah, from the perspective of God, or from the perspective of man civilization? Do I fear the toppling of Babylon? From the perspective of my religion, or the perspective, that one day the society I have built will crumble, right, one day, the powerful elites will fall and they want me to know that that is despair. Like, where did these traditional thoughts come from? Because that's, that's, that's what I've been working with. Because I know, deep down, when I think of, when I think of gay marriage, that that subconscious traditional voice says, Chris, you better be careful out there, because this is a problem. But I'm now looking at this tradition and saying, you know what, there's some sand talking people. There's some indigenous people that have been dealing with these traditions for years. And from their perspective, the civilization crumbles regardless, because of eventually we wise up and realize that there's a bunch of different types of people and societies. Forced hierarchy doesn't work. It just


44:43

doesn't work. And that's okay.

44:46

Yes, that's okay. Yeah. I mean, man, you nailed it. And if y'all have not read sand talk, I would encourage you to read it. We're gonna, we're gonna be talking about that book product quite a bit for for a while. It's a red, it's a red pill, so be careful. But for sure, it's a red pill. But yeah, man. Yeah, you nailed it. That's it. That's it.


45:10

It's real. It's real. And, and it's scary to nella. It's scary to have these companies conflicting thoughts, but it's really helpful and healthy to have a full perspective of my civilization. Because one, I'm very happy I get to play PlayStation five.


45:25

Oh, yeah.


45:28

Like, I can tell you all the delicacies from all different cultures, right? Like, yeah, I'm sorry, I'm not no hate to Native Americans. But I know, they weren't getting Uber Eats the, you know, orange chicken. Yeah. Or curry. You know, like, they they're heavy. And so I'm aware of the globalization and the society has so many benefits. But I'm also aware that maybe a lot of the struggles and strife we're seeing aren't because those people are bad, but it's just life, correct? Human. It's, there's a lot of us. And we're from all over the place with different walks of life. And our traditions don't always line up, and it's okay. And it's okay for us to be fighting and arguing. As long as we come back and talk and say, You know what, let me let me share my perspective. Have you heard of this podcast and perfect allies? Yeah, yeah.


46:10 

Yeah.


46:13 

Yeah, man. I do and that's a good that's a good start, man. I mean, it's in really Going back, I'll just I'll circle back one more time is talking to each other. It's really listening to each other, not just like not just giving lip service not just, you know, or whatever. Yeah, that's fine. But really trying to to internalize the experience of others and put yourself in those shoes. And connect and believe one another believe believe black people when they talk about what their experience believe women when they talk about their experience, believe Christians when they talk about their experience, you know, saying believe Muslims believe believe, you know, believe them. Believe why people believe people white


46:21 

people have.


46:22 

They do they do. And so, you know, you We can't just be dismissive. We can't, we got to listen, and it's painful. It's not, it's not it's not pretty as it's not always pretty, and it's not always joyous. At the same time, I think it's going to lead us to those places. So, man, thank y'all so much for listening to us. We're gonna have some, we got some great guests coming up in the next couple of weeks. I'm very excited about it. And, you know, if you can, if you can, please support us on Patreon. But that's what we're trying to do with that money is trying to get this production values up. So so you know, it's produced everything sounds great for you consistently, trying to bring some some, just higher quality audio and video to more content, things like that, more opportunities to talk to us over the next year, coming up years. If you can't, you know, we understand completely just hit us up on iTunes with those five stars. Just let people know that what you think about the podcast, that helps so so much, it gets us on lists and more more viewers and listeners, and just helps even with no money that helps tremendously


47:30 

share share your, your timestamps, when you hear something that blows you away, don't don't forget to timestamp because, you know, your friends are gonna listen. And they're gonna want that timestamp too. And so, you know, let's just open up, let's communicate, let's share, again, Patreon. We have tons of candidates where we go deeper, and we talk about different things and we share some books that we're reading. But if you can't just share us, connect with us. Keep listening. We're the imperfect allies and we just love what we're doing. And we love this community that we're growing. So thank you all so much.


48:46 

Thank you. Peace, peace.